The Races of Daedra; Deaths, Rebirths, and Love?

Today’s topic is the Daedra. Not the monsters like the Clannfear or the Scamp, but the humanoid daedra like Dremora, Mazken and Aureals. There’s other daedric races out there, but few that we’ve seen so much of in the series. Therefore, races like the Aurorans, Spider Daedra and Winged Twilights are out of the scope of this post.

In Tamrielic lore, little is actually known about these  races and not much on the way their daily lives operate. We do known the Dremora call themselves the “Kyn” and have a strong hierarchical structure, as well have several clans. In addition, not all dremora clans appear to be in service to Mehrunes Dagon, or rather I should say individual dremora whose presence implies that there may be clans that operate outside of the Deadlands and in service to other Princes. Skyrim and Dragonborn strongly suggests there is some in service to Hermaeus Mora and Sanguine, for instance. In fact, Sanguine’s artifact, the Sanguine Rose, summons a dremora fighter.

From what I remember of Shivering Isles, and I admit, it’s been a while… The Mazken and Aureals of the Shivering Isles seem to have a similar structure to the Dremora as far as hierarchy goes, but we get more personal with them and as a result, it’s not quite as obvious. They are not enemies with varying levels of difficulty as evidenced in the generic names, like the majority of the Dremora we see in Oblivion.

Both races are female-oriented as opposed to the Dremora male oriented focus, though males of both species are more evident than dremora females, there being only one dremora female encountered in the entire series. The males of both Mazkens and Aureals are considered inferior to the females, even by the males themselves. Last time I played Shivering Isles, I seem to remember at least one male commenting somewhat unhappily about that. The similarities suggest that the Mazken and Aureals could be considered in the same “family” as each other, though they view each other with suspicion and more than a little rivalry.

The differences between the two races are in their physical forms and attitudes. The description from Shivering Isles of the Mazken implied they were more amiable to the mortal races, either being more drawn to them, or more tolerate and understanding of them, while the Aureals were more arrogant and looked down on mortals as a superior race.

Now, keep these things in mind, because I’m going to get into theories about their reproductive capability. This might be “who cares” to more casual players, but it’s somewhat important to people interested in the lore of the series, and the birth of certain individuals in the wider universe has been in debate in the fandom.

Recently, as in the past few months, I was going through some lore discussion forums and I noticed someone made a comment in response to someone else that the daedra absolutely do not reproduce and absolutely do not have gender and only appear as what they wish.

Poppycock.

This may be true of the Daedric Princes, and I’m not even sure about that, but this doesn’t appear true for the male Mazken and Aureals. If they could take any form they wished, why even have males of the species, unless it was out of some honor-bound sense of duty? It may be true of the Dremora, since we see only one female, and that might even have been an inadvertent error on part of the game devs, but then we need to think about Velehk Sain and the book about him, where one verse could be interpreted as that Velehk Sain was a murderous, rapacious pirate.

And as for the Princes, sure, they can take their own forms, but again, that style of thinking is completely disregarding the Tamrielic legend of the first Vampire who had been a Nedic Virgin and was raped by Molag Bal. Serana from Dawnguard won’t even speak of her initiation into Vampirehood and becoming a Daughter of Coldharbour other than it was “degrading.”

While there certainly are neuter species of daedra out there, at least these three daedric races appear to function more like mortals do. I mean, what reason do Velehk Sain and the Dremora Merchant have for acquiring wealth? Sure, you may argue that it’s out of boredom from an unimaginably old lifespan, but at Velehk Sain seemed attached to his treasure, and the Merchant seemed more interested in haggling. During the main quest line of Shivering Isles, the Mazken and Aureals are even able to die like mortals as their physical respawning thingamajigs were taken over by the forces of Order, preventing them from being recreated.

In Tamrielic lore, there’s a book called Racial Phylogeny or Notes on Racial Phylogeny depending on which game you are playing. The entire thing is about the reproductive compatibility of the different races, and specifically mentions daedra. The book offers no proof one way or the other that they are able to reproduce, but does imply that there have been stories of mortal races and daedra couples. This, combined with the fact that there are actual genders among the races of daedra suggests that they may, in fact, be capable of it. Dremora tend to be male, with only one known example of a female dremora appearing in Oblivion. The Mazken or Seducers and Aureals or Golden Saints tend toward the female side, with males appearing rarely and implied to be inferior to the females (what a refreshing change.) Now, while they don’t need to because they are able, through Oblivion’s power itself or through the Princes they serve, to be recreated or reborn or however you wish to put it, that does not necessarily follow they are incapable of it, just like they are aren’t necessarily incapable of dying.

Even more interesting evidence rests in Batltespire, where part of the story is that Mehrunes Dagon himself took a Dark Seducer as a lover. As a lover. Who then in turn betrayed him and was killed, et ctr et ctr. But it is quite interesting that there are examples of liaisons amongst the daedra themselves.

There is more than enough wiggle room here for this to be possible, but as it stands there is just not enough evidence to claim one way or the other that they can’t function. There is evidence, however, that they can die under certain circumstances and do have souls, and that’s enough for me that they can do the rest.

Lovecraft and the Elder Scrolls: The Gods of Tamriel

Lovecraft and all the stories that came after his death has had a profound effect on modern pop and non-pop culture. You can’t swing your arm without hitting something that has been influenced by Lovecraft at least on some level. But let’s be honest here, I was really surprised the other day (well, a few weeks ago) when I stumbled on a forum post (link and names withheld for privacy’s sake) where someone mentioned that Hermaeus Mora in Dragonborn seemed very influenced by Lovecraft. I think my jaw hit the ground right around that point in an “Are you flipping kidding me?!”

For a series called The Elder Scrolls.

The. Elder. Scrolls. Uh, right.

Fact is, the entire damn series screams out to be considered an extension of the greater Lovecraftian works based in, if not another universe, then at least another part of the same universe. We have no idea what the “Outer Realms” in Tamriel mean, after all.

Now, from anyone who has actually read Lovecraft, this might be “Yeah, big deal. I see it too/agree blah blah blah.” Actually, I have never read Lovecraft and I don’t think I’d be a big fan if I did, but I have read up on it. I find the concepts behind the stories fascinating, but also rather frightening. I’ve mostly pursued TV Tropes in the middle of research for my own stories, just so I could get the general gist of what people were talking about when they mentioned Eldritch Abominations. If I, a complete layman save for meta-info and definitions, when it comes to anything Lovecraft, can see all of the connections in TES, there’s got to be something to it. Let’s explore.

Before I really start here, let’s define a few terms.

Lovecraft/Lovecraftian: I use this term to encompass the entire works spawned by H. P. Lovecraft’s original mythos.

Derleth Mythos: specific to works that came after Lovecraft’s death, notably August Derleth’s stories.

Tamrielic Lore: the mythos spawned by The Elder Scrolls video game series and now includes a variety of works. Not the in-game book of that name.

The Gods of Tamriel

There have been attempts at categorizing this fictional group of beings, and Phillip A. Schreffler argues that by carefully scrutinizing Lovecraft’s writings a workable framework emerges that outlines the entire “pantheon” – from the unreachable “Outer Ones” (e.g. Azathoth, who apparently occupies the centre of the universe) and “Great Old Ones” (e.g. Cthulhu, imprisoned on Earth in the sunken city of R’lyeh) to the lesser castes (the lowly slave shoggoths and the Mi-go).
Wikipedia

Let’s talk about the Aedra for a moment. Unreachable, unknowable, unable to actually walk the world of Tamriel. Sleepers of supposedly benevolent disposition and divine power who went into retirement after creating the world. It sounds a lot like the Elder Gods in the latter Derleth mythos, who act as opposing and balancing force to the Great Old Ones of the same era, considered to be the “Good” forces in the universe and rarely, if ever, stir to interfere in the struggles between men and the Great Old ones.

The Aedra in Tamrielic lore are considered “ancestor spirits” by the mer and “creators” by the humans. The legends have it that the Aedra gave up parts of their essence to form the “Earthbones” of Nirn, and can actually be killed as a consequence of creation. They are unable to actively interfere in Nirn or do more than bless those mortals who follow and worship them. They are very susceptible to the mortal perception of them and have even been changed due to it.

Interestingly, another book you can find in-game tells a different story of the Creation myth of Nirn as Anu and Padomay creating Nir, and Nir preferring Anu, created many different worlds with him, and in jealousy, Padomay destroying Nir (Creation), leading Anu to fight with his brother Padomay and then attempt to salvage Creation by merging all the different worlds into one. Supposedly, the blood from that battle became the Spirits, both Aedric due to the mixing of Anu and Padomay’s blood, and Daedric, who sprung only from Padomay’s.

What is compelling to me is that there are actually planets in Mundus named the same as the eight Aedra. While the mortals living on Nirn, particularly the Dwemer, who advanced the science of astronomy considerably, could have named them thus, it poses an interesting theory of what if it was meant literally, and all the Creation myths are true? That the Aedric spirits in physical form were other planets, and literally gave up parts of themselves to form the planet Nirn. The reference to the Aedra being from a mix of Anu and Padomay’s blood could be a reference to Nir herself, possibly being made from both Anu and Padomay. Of course, the Creation myths in The Elder Scrolls are extremely confusing, but I could see this. In a world where you are granted blessings from constellations where stars are supposedly created by lesser spirits breaking from Mundus into Atherius, why not get blessings from planet-divines? Other evidence supports this, if you read through the lore on the UESP wiki, and some in-game books make allusions that this is technically the case, but then again, there’s about a dozen different creation myths in Tamrielic Lore.

Personally, I think they’re all true. Even the ones that are not. Especially the ones that are not.

Anyway, digressing is getting off track, and I hadn’t meant to start out on my own theories, but there is plenty of evidence so far to support the connection to Lovecraftian lore with just the Aedra. Aetherius, the plane in which the Aedra dwell after the creation of Nirn, also has a connection to Lovecraftian lore where some authors, wishing to apply elemental connections, coined the term aethyr to distinguish from mundane every day elements. It’s not that strong of a connection, and Aether is more likely to be the contributing factor here, but still, thought I should mention it.

Stay tuned for Part 2.

Maybe one of these days I’ll write up a series on all my lore theories.

Lovecraft and the Elder Scrolls: The Daedric Princes

 The Daedra, Daemons or Oblivion-spawned

As Lovecraft conceived the deities or forces of his mythos, there were, initially, the Elder Gods… [T]hese Elder Gods were benign deities, representing the forces of good, and existed peacefully…very rarely stirring forth to intervene in the unceasing struggle between the powers of evil and the races of Earth. These powers of evil were variously known as the Great Old Ones or the Ancient Ones…
—August Derleth, “The Cthulhu Mythos”

The Daedric Princes; powerful gods or abominations, depending on the local view in Tamriel. Each has a separate sphere of influence, and whose interference in the affairs of mortal men almost always leads to mortals suffering for it. TES Lore and meta-lore refer to the Daedric Princes with that definition. What people who are not familiar with Lovecraft’s work, that is also the definition of the Great Old Ones in Lovecraftian mythos, originally started by Derleth.

There are many parallels between the Daedra and the beings depicted in Lovecraft, from the ancient, unreachable tentacle monsters so terrible that even a vague concept of them drives men mad. Azathoth in particular is viewed this way in several of the stories put out in the original Lovecraftian lore, being the unreachable one at the center of the universe whose name instills a feeling of dread in mortal men. Hermaeus Mora, the Daedric Prince of Knowledge and Fate, is often depicted much like Azathoth. In Dragonborn, and you’re going to be seeing some spoilers here if you don’t stop reading right now,

 

you see the affect that the Black Books of Hermaeus Mora have on mortals unable to understand or not powerful enough to withstand the onslaught of the “slimy black finger’s secrets.”

In another way, you could classify the Daedric Princes as eldritch abominations, unknowable and incomprehensible to mortals. They certainly have a complete disregard for the natural laws of Tamriel’s universe. They are often introduced in the games with unexpected twists to their story, particularly the more interesting ones like Sheogorath, whose back story lead to the entire storyline of The Shivering Isles expansion for Oblivion, and in which he enlists a mortal to take his place as the MadGod. I suppose, looking back at the creation myths documented in Tamriel itself, you could argue that because of the Daedra’s refusal to participate in creation, they exist outside the natural laws of Mundus as well.

The Daedra also have a sort of fascination for the mortals, though exactly why is up for debate, but they thoroughly enjoy meddling in Tamriel. Some are more diabolical than others, and some, like Azura, even actually seem concerned for those who worship them. The story of Morrowind is a good example for this, starting with the discovery of Lorkhan’s heart and the subsequent abuse of it by the Dwemer and the Tribunal. Azura was ultimately responsible for predicting the return of Nerevar, who was a favored of Azura, and setting in motion the events that led to the correction of the abominations of Dagoth Ur and the Tribunal. And also as an side effect, probably led to the destruction of most of Vvardenfel when Baor Dau was released from Vivec’s influence and finished its descent, causing the eruptions when it smashed into the face of the planet with all the power it had before Vivec stopped it. As a result, the Dunmer people suffered, even when the meddling was meant to be beneficial. As a last point, not many mortals on Tamriel know much about the Aedra, the sleeping “Elder Gods,” yet know quite a bit of the Daedra, or at least have more access to knowledge of the Daedra, which also seems to parallel Lovecraft.

This has been rather shorter than I expected, but the parallels are so blatant here.

For cripessake, Mehrunes Dagon and Dagon the Lovecraftian God share a name.

Re-posting “Skyrim, Spoilers, and those damned Nords”

November 27 2011, 12:39 AM

Skyrim

Skyrim came out a couple of weeks ago. I’m thoroughly enjoying the game when I’m not being jolted out of immersion when I see the water clipping into the ground or that the game still suffers from many of the things that Oblivion did, such as terrain texturitis and closeup texturitis. Nor the fact that the Dunmer look like they have funky Romulan eyebrow ridges that I fully intend on fixing when the CK finally comes out, since even in Morrowind they didn’t look like that. Oh, and not to mention the x10 factor of game breaking bugs, such as Esbern’s voice bug or the Season Unending/Civil War bug for example. It seems almost as if Bethesda was so much in a hurry to get Skyrim released on that 11-11-11 date they skipped beta testing, and opted to rely on patches.

Considering how much they left in Oblivion for the Unofficial Oblivion Patch to fix, that makes me rather nervous. The UOP suffers from some bugs of its own, one where if you do a certain non-quest the Oblivion gate map markers will disappear. What will happen with Skyrim’s more advanced, more complicated system?

At any rate, they have at least improved the stealth system, making it actually possible for thief characters to be a viable option, something I’ve always been disappointed with in Oblivion. Also, mages are far more viable as well, and with a mod that tweaks things just a bit, are really very awesome. My first character is something of a combination of the two, like a Nightblade, so naturally she joined the College of Winterhold. During the Magic Anomaly attack, she shot lightning bolts from her fingers and destroyed all who stood in her way, along side of her college mates, who preferred more unusual forms of magic. Such as raising undead chickens.

One of my more favorite aspects of the game is sneaking around and sniping off targets with my Daedric bow. Bows actually do a decent amount of damage, and with enchantments, can actually kill someone in one hit, particularly of you have the perks to increase basic bow damage and sneak attack.

I’m a little disappointed with the whole enchantment system, on the other hand, as there’s even less to enchant in Skyrim than in Oblivion, and far far less than Morrowind. There’s also only one enchantment per item unless you have the Two Enchantments perk. To get a decent enchantment you practically have to be wearing a full suit of Fortify Enchantment gear, or find an Epic Item somewhere and skip enchanting at all.

Oh, here’s a video of an interesting way of completing Wolfskull Cave using only a bow and some luck.

I don’t know, there’s something satisfying about sneaking up on someone. It’s gotten better since Oblivion, but still, there’s times where I would be creeping around downstairs and some idiot upstairs had x-ray vision that could see me steal that loaf of bread. You can put a bucket on a shopkeeper’s head and steal them blind, but if the door is closed and they’re on the other side of it, you still get caught. Such inconsistency.

I may be biased due to my love of the classic-yet-almost-unheard-of Thief series, though. Now that is a stealth system I wish they would have used, it was one of the best, even in Deadly Shadows where the NPC AI was of questionable design (I mean, you can have the Pagans and the Brotherhood go at it in the streets and you’d be watching from a rooftop, the guards would find the body and still blame you. I mean what?).

Despite all that, I think the most value in Skyrim probably lays outside of the Main Quest and the dragons, so much hyped and yet it falls rather short. I was expecting more of an epic battle, kind of like the end of Oblivion, but no, it’s more of a personal quest over anything, and not a particularly epic one, either. That title would go to Planescape: Torment in Epic Personal Journey. I had to say I was a little disappointed with that. If I think about it, it really seems like a side quest more than anything. There’s only so many dragon attacks you can have before it gets boring.

And one last thing. Skyrim’s full of those damned Nords. They were annoying in Morrowind and Oblivion, but now it takes new heights. I can’t understand why anyone would even consider joining the Stormcloaks, especially if their character is an elf. The character of Ulfric seems to not grasp anything of what is going on with the Empire, being so obsessed with worshiping Talos and freeing Skyrim from the Imperial “tyranny,” he fails to see where the Imperials don’t like the Thalmor any more than they do. He fails to see that the Imperials may be planning another war, one that they might win, and everything he does in Skyrim negates that. One of the characters in Solitude said something to the effect that “Talos worship may be banned, but Tiber Septim was a man once, and this was his Empire.” and implied Ulfric was interested more in power rather than freedom. Because of this, I find Ulfric to be completely hypocritical. To worship Talos, or to preserve what he had created in life. What would have been better to honor him with? Ulfric has a lot of petty vanity and a severe lack of foresight.

Just got to keep my fingers crossed and hope the next game is in the Summerset Isles with all that delicious politicking and spying. And with the descriptions of the cities… That would make a truly epic game.