Tag Archives: oblivion

The Races of Daedra; Deaths, Rebirths, and Love?

Today’s topic is the Daedra. Not the monsters like the Clannfear or the Scamp, but the humanoid daedra like Dremora, Mazken and Aureals. There’s other daedric races out there, but few that we’ve seen so much of in the series. Therefore, races like the Aurorans, Spider Daedra and Winged Twilights are out of the scope of this post.

In Tamrielic lore, little is actually known about these  races and not much on the way their daily lives operate. We do known the Dremora call themselves the “Kyn” and have a strong hierarchical structure, as well have several clans. In addition, not all dremora clans appear to be in service to Mehrunes Dagon, or rather I should say individual dremora whose presence implies that there may be clans that operate outside of the Deadlands and in service to other Princes. Skyrim and Dragonborn strongly suggests there is some in service to Hermaeus Mora and Sanguine, for instance. In fact, Sanguine’s artifact, the Sanguine Rose, summons a dremora fighter.

From what I remember of Shivering Isles, and I admit, it’s been a while… The Mazken and Aureals of the Shivering Isles seem to have a similar structure to the Dremora as far as hierarchy goes, but we get more personal with them and as a result, it’s not quite as obvious. They are not enemies with varying levels of difficulty as evidenced in the generic names, like the majority of the Dremora we see in Oblivion.

Both races are female-oriented as opposed to the Dremora male oriented focus, though males of both species are more evident than dremora females, there being only one dremora female encountered in the entire series. The males of both Mazkens and Aureals are considered inferior to the females, even by the males themselves. Last time I played Shivering Isles, I seem to remember at least one male commenting somewhat unhappily about that. The similarities suggest that the Mazken and Aureals could be considered in the same “family” as each other, though they view each other with suspicion and more than a little rivalry.

The differences between the two races are in their physical forms and attitudes. The description from Shivering Isles of the Mazken implied they were more amiable to the mortal races, either being more drawn to them, or more tolerate and understanding of them, while the Aureals were more arrogant and looked down on mortals as a superior race.

Now, keep these things in mind, because I’m going to get into theories about their reproductive capability. This might be “who cares” to more casual players, but it’s somewhat important to people interested in the lore of the series, and the birth of certain individuals in the wider universe has been in debate in the fandom.

Recently, as in the past few months, I was going through some lore discussion forums and I noticed someone made a comment in response to someone else that the daedra absolutely do not reproduce and absolutely do not have gender and only appear as what they wish.

Poppycock.

This may be true of the Daedric Princes, and I’m not even sure about that, but this doesn’t appear true for the male Mazken and Aureals. If they could take any form they wished, why even have males of the species, unless it was out of some honor-bound sense of duty? It may be true of the Dremora, since we see only one female, and that might even have been an inadvertent error on part of the game devs, but then we need to think about Velehk Sain and the book about him, where one verse could be interpreted as that Velehk Sain was a murderous, rapacious pirate.

And as for the Princes, sure, they can take their own forms, but again, that style of thinking is completely disregarding the Tamrielic legend of the first Vampire who had been a Nedic Virgin and was raped by Molag Bal. Serana from Dawnguard won’t even speak of her initiation into Vampirehood and becoming a Daughter of Coldharbour other than it was “degrading.”

While there certainly are neuter species of daedra out there, at least these three daedric races appear to function more like mortals do. I mean, what reason do Velehk Sain and the Dremora Merchant have for acquiring wealth? Sure, you may argue that it’s out of boredom from an unimaginably old lifespan, but at Velehk Sain seemed attached to his treasure, and the Merchant seemed more interested in haggling. During the main quest line of Shivering Isles, the Mazken and Aureals are even able to die like mortals as their physical respawning thingamajigs were taken over by the forces of Order, preventing them from being recreated.

In Tamrielic lore, there’s a book called Racial Phylogeny or Notes on Racial Phylogeny depending on which game you are playing. The entire thing is about the reproductive compatibility of the different races, and specifically mentions daedra. The book offers no proof one way or the other that they are able to reproduce, but does imply that there have been stories of mortal races and daedra couples. This, combined with the fact that there are actual genders among the races of daedra suggests that they may, in fact, be capable of it. Dremora tend to be male, with only one known example of a female dremora appearing in Oblivion. The Mazken or Seducers and Aureals or Golden Saints tend toward the female side, with males appearing rarely and implied to be inferior to the females (what a refreshing change.) Now, while they don’t need to because they are able, through Oblivion’s power itself or through the Princes they serve, to be recreated or reborn or however you wish to put it, that does not necessarily follow they are incapable of it, just like they are aren’t necessarily incapable of dying.

Even more interesting evidence rests in Batltespire, where part of the story is that Mehrunes Dagon himself took a Dark Seducer as a lover. As a lover. Who then in turn betrayed him and was killed, et ctr et ctr. But it is quite interesting that there are examples of liaisons amongst the daedra themselves.

There is more than enough wiggle room here for this to be possible, but as it stands there is just not enough evidence to claim one way or the other that they can’t function. There is evidence, however, that they can die under certain circumstances and do have souls, and that’s enough for me that they can do the rest.

When the CK Came out

Still working on the World Space issues, though I’ve made progress, and yes, still working on the second part of the Dwemer translation. It may take a while to write it but keep eyes open! Meanwhile, I appreciate comments and discussion if you care to talk about it, or, you know, totally slap down something completely silly and ridiculous I somehow missed. I tend to do things like that.

A lot of my recent work brought back memories of when Skyrim first came out. I remember being very excited about creating one of the first story mods and anticipating it as the launch of Skyrim got closer, and the disappointment when the CK wasn’t immediately released. The anticipation mounted to a frustrating point when the CK was delayed, originally supposed to come out the same day as Skyrim. It was at least two months before we saw any mention about when it would finally grace Steam downloads, and a lot of people had turned to using GECK for Fallout with moderate success.GECK and the other modder’s resourcefulness sort of quashed my dream of being one of the first to realize all the possibilities the CK offered. Oh well! A good lesson to not worry so much about being first, because being first is not always the point.

I also remember, vaguely, loading the Creation Kit up when it came out sometime in January 2012 (or was it Feb?) and starting the long process of learning how to use the files in Skyrim, but not many tutorials save for the woefully inadequate CK Wiki. I sort of got lost trying to piece together a large house and eventually gave up and abandoned the project as I had other obligations to tend to at the time.

So many awesome mods have come out since then, though, it’s hard to keep track of everything. I look at the vast number of mods for Skyrim, and it’s only been a little over a year and a half since it came out. I don’t think Oblivion had so many in the same period of time. The sheer creativity of humans astounds me.

Still, there’s still things I want to do or have in my game that nobody else has made yet. My initial disappointment at really wanting to make a difference in the community is somewhat allayed now, because maybe it wasn’t the right time, or maybe I didn’t have the right kind of experience yet. I’ll admit, it’s so much easier learning the things a modder needs to know with the larger array of tutorials available, even if a number of them are outdated. It’s important to figure out what works for you. Thinking back, the state my health was in wasn’t really conducive to learning, either, as I may have mentioned before. The difference of clarity in my head between then and now is pretty drastic.

It’s June, and New Years is a long way behind and ahead, but I feel… sort of optimistic of the future for the first time in such a long time I can’t even remember. Creating a mod, heck, just creating something at all is rewarding. It’s a good lesson, for sure.

Things that Frustrate me about Tamrielic Lore

As much as I love the world of Tamriel, I think the creators do the potential of it a strong injustice with the way they’ve handled it in the past several years. Badly written novels aside, I think the world should be expanded, and fans should have a direct bearing on the lore. I don’t mean just toss whatever crap people feel like tossing in, but I think certain extremely well made mods should be appointed canon, and also, fan art and fan stories. Hell, I know of half a dozen fans who are talented writers that would kill for a chance to write a novel that would get published.

It would solve a lot of problems. Such as irritating things that we never find out what exactly happened after certain big events- big point Morrowind, second point, what happened to all the people you meet in Oblivion, third point what exactly happened to Nerevar?

Multiple explanations for everything, if we get any at all.

Today’s topic is the frustration of the Tamrielic lore. As Elder Scrolls Online is still months away from release with its infusion of new lore to the already vast world, it could be a complete game changer for the series with its look into the history of Tamriel, so at this point in time, I’m only going to refer to the already released aspects of Tamriel.

It’s frustrating, I say, because of the complete lack of clarity on some subjects, and the tendency to rewrite already established lore just to fit something new in. When it isn’t even necessary. Karliah was a good example of a grand rewriting of Barenziah’s story just to fit her in. There had already been plot holes and openings to allow Karliah without also completely- and to put it bluntly- screwing up the Nightingale/Jagar Tharn and Barenziah’s relationship and the whole back story to Elder Scrolls: Arena. The sex of the child who is supposed to be Karliah’s parent, isn’t even the same from The Real Barenziah, which was originally male. We never did find out what happen to the child in any of Barenziah’s biographies originally, there was no reason at all to rewrite it so completely. The blanks were already there; they could have just filled it in.

In addition, between games you never really totally find out what happened to the characters you befriend or otherwise unless the game devs specifically put in references, and that’s what it tends to be; rather vague references if we get any at all. I absolutely loved having Sinderion and Neloth appear in Skyrim in their various forms, but Neloth doesn’t really speak specifically about the Nerevarine and Sinderion is dead so he can’t tell you anything about the Oblivion crisis. Instead, we get a few books about vague general things about what had happened (which we already knew) and some new things about how the other continents handled it, like the Argonians ejecting the Oblivion forces from Black Marsh by sheer numbers.

But you never hear anything about the Hero of Kvatch. Who got a freaking statue in Bruma for their efforts in the Crisis. In fact, you don’t even hear if they went to another country like the Nerevarine who supposedly went to Akavir. The whole deal with Sheogorath couldn’t have been permanent, and I’m not entirely convinced the Sheogorath you meet in Skyrim is the Hero of Kvatch as others say. It’s possible, but again! There’s that vagueness. I’d rather know if Jyggalag had been split into his two selves when the curse broke at the end of Shivering Isles or not! I mean, I love the open worlds to adventure in, but there comes a point where they’re sacrificing coherency for no good reason. Throw us a goddamn bone here. I’d happily create a mod about Jyggalag if they’d just give us the hooks we need to take off with it! BUT IT DOESN’T HAPPEN.

That reminds me. Oblivion and Morrowind had a period of about six years in game time between them, and the only mentions of the goings on in Morrowind is about “That whole Tribunal nightmare.” Come on! There needs to be more about that than a few random rumors. How about a few enclaves of religious fugitives? Fugitive priests? A better explanation of what’s going on? The Dunmer of Cheydinhal and their vague references are not enough! The whole damn province should be in an uproar and it should have a blatant effect on Cyrodiil. The re-establishment of the Good Daedra couldn’t have been easy or overnight.

And now, let’s talk about the Warp in the West a little bit. The gap between Daggerfall and Morrowind is a bit longer than Morrowind to Oblivion, but we get a whole book about it. At the end of Daggerfall, you have a choice of who to give the Mantella Crux to. There’s about seven or eight choices. You get to pick only one. The in-game book? Every single person who could get it, all got it at the same time. Okay, that’s pretty not-vague, but it’s also really strange without a decent explanation, like the intervention of an Elder Scroll that manipulated time for some reason, because I’m pretty sure the Mantella can’t do that kind of thing on its own, even as powerful as it is.

If you’ve noticed I haven’t mentioned the novels yet or that there may be some explanations in there, it’s because I don’t really consider them a reliable contribution to the lore and are… sort of poorly researched. And not very well written, may I add. I’ve read a countless number of books in my life and have written a few, and the novels… really didn’t do it for me. The characters were lack-luster, the plot confusing, the author had a poor grasp of the mechanics behind the lore- I don’t think he played any of the games and got to know the world like we do-, and the bad grammar and shoddy editing really took away. That’s another thing- a good book should at least attempt to explain enough of the world to the reader so that they shouldn’t have to know the other installments in the lore. Other major series does this in varying degrees in their novels, even ones that seem almost universal- from Star Trek, to DnD, to Xanth. I lent the book to my mother, who has a discerning taste in fantasy literature, and asked her what she thought of it. Her review was even less stellar than mine, citing almost the same problems I had and then came up with several more for someone who just happens to stumble across the book in a bookstore and didn’t know the lore like I do- and even knowing the lore, it was confusing..

What I think Bethesda should do is expand the novel lore, bring in more authors, open up the opportunity to the fan base to submit manuscripts, and set some damn standards. Ask what the fans want in the way of filling in the gaps in the games. I don’t know, maybe just more interaction with the community at large and let many more people into the world. Tamriel could really be a force to reckon with if they’d just open it up in the same manner as Dungeons and Dragons, who have thousands of books out. Well. Maybe not literally, but I haven’t counted recently. It’s been more than 10 years since I’ve looked at D&D.

And no, quest line mods don’t really count. For as awesome as they are, we know they aren’t really canon. That’s probably the most frustrating of all. Community mods can never be considered canon. Yeah, well, think what you like, I’ll always consider Ruin-Tail an essential part of Oblivion.

No, wait, I take that back. The most frustrating of all is when the undefined, vagueness of the lore sets the fans against each other over extremely wide interpretations. That’s probably the worst part of it. People I’d like to otherwise know better getting nasty because people see the other potentials. I realize this is endemic to the fantasy genre of games, for cripessake Final Fantasy VII still has that ridiculous triangle debate still going on. But it would be nice to be able to agree on something, like, say, the friggin’ height of the Dwemer. Which is regular elven height, by the way, and thank you very much. There’s two camps in that debate; the ones that have scoured the lore and the ones that only read the Elder Scrolls Wikia.

Anyway, I’m done. I had to share that because I’m getting brain-sore trying to think my way through this stuff for the Project, while plotting out something unique and interesting, and still trying to make it lore friendly.

Oblivion’s OBSE and Avast FAV

I discovered a nasty surprise when I went to play Oblivion to check on a reference in game today. I haven’t opened the thing up in a couple years, since before we installed the new graphics card actually. I was sort of curious how it was running now that it was an old game and no longer the Horker of resources that it was when it came out (and for some years after.)

Welp, it came back with that time worn old error “Couldn’t inject dll!”

This error has all sorts of causes, from Vista, to UAC, to firewall settings, to administrator access. With some fuddling around including turning off my firewall and making sure my exes were running as administrator, which really shouldn’t have been an issue in the first place since it ran while under the Vista dynasty and I’d installed it in the no-no zone of \Program Files, I discovered it was the antivirus. Well, that wasn’t all that surprising… the surprise came later.

Good old Avast Free has been keeping my computer (somewhat) secure for a while now. It does a good job usually at letting me know what it’s doing and why it thinks x program is misbehaving. It shouldn’t have been an issue including Oblivion into the exclusions, right? Wrong. Right now, I have all the files in the freaking folder set into the exclusions. The only thing that keeps Avast from stopping the dll injection is going into Behavior Shield options and unchecking “Scan for malware like behavior.” Nothing else works for me so far, including doing the unthinkable “allow always” option. The strange thing is, SKSE on Skyrim works just fine in the non-default folder I set it to. I haven’t fully checked into why, possibly because it is that Oblivion is installed in the default Program Files, but after all the work I did to install FCOM, MMM and OOO on Oblivion, there’s no way I’m uninstalling now to check. At least I know what to turn off when I want to play Oblivion these days.

Sure, Oblivion’s an old game, but one I think is still lasting, and the more info to deal with these things as we move away from old software, the better.